Boosting a 602 crate 350

Discussion in 'Engine & Performance' started by Regularcabkid, Aug 19, 2017.

Sponsored By: Black Bear Performance
  1. Regularcabkid

    Regularcabkid GMFS Member

    Posts:
    48
    Likes Received:
    3
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2017
    Alrighty I have a sb350 crate motor totally stock however not sealed. (Freshened rod bearings/0-gap rings and new replacement valve springs etc).
    On top of 1 race season, There are probably a few thousand additional HARD miles on the engine after small refresh listed above.
    Ran 3 race seasons total of circle track with this engine at 50 laps a feature and never skipped a beat. I swapped this engine Inti to a 91 2door swb gmc sonoma pickup.
    It has a 750 4 barrel with a blow through hat. Haven't messed with jetting since a/f ratio on boost is where I want it for now.
    Not running an intercooler at the moment. Turbskies are off of an early 90s? 7.3 Powerstroke one on each home made exhaust header, so it's a twin turbo set-up.
    Max boost is set at 7psi at the moment.
    Timing is around 22 degrees(no controller) and it's running a steady 11.9-12.2 a/f ratio at full boost.
    Now, at higher rpms the timing seems to retard itself about 4 degrees or more and I can only assume the cause for this is the non functioning alternator for which ive kept for the ease, but I'm using a yellow top gel cell and run all over town with no problems.
    Been running 93 from the pump mostly but filled up with 110 at the track so roughly 80% in the fuel cell is 110 right now.
    This is all backed by a turbo 350 that's had some work done. (Shift kit for sure maybe drilled and refreshed/Maybe mildly upgraded internals not sure). Tranny is holding fine (somehow) with radials and a 10" 5000 stall with aux. cooler and showing no signs of letting go.
    Out back is a ford 9" narrowed for radials with cust. Strange 33spline axles and 3.73 gears with a true posi setup.
    Removed all but 1 leaf spring leaving a half 2nd leaf for layover and threw on some homemade track bars.
    Cam is hydraulic flat tappet with stock spec lift at .435 Intake/ .460 exhaust and 212/222 duration @ .050 with 112.5 lsa. Factory 1.5 ratio stamped rockers and stock valve spring rates.
    Comes in crate with a dual plane high rise Intake and vortec heads of course.
    Crate come with Hyperuetectic pistons and powdered rods.
    Running mechanical fan directly with no thermostat, and aluminum radiator.(have to double check size)
    When I install working alternator I'm going to install an e-fan to a switch for the gains, response and to cool off between runs. Anyhow, ran it at the track last night at a 1/4 mile track and made 3 passes 1 being a full pass and 2 1/8 mile.
    No issues at all and 1st pass ever at a track (being the only full one of the night) and ran a 11.81 @115 mph with a 1.87 60' foot and 7.80 something 1/8th mile but when I stalled up at the tree the boost powered through the brakes and I just barely hit A red light before taking off.
    2nd run in the 1/8th was a 1.67 60' foot and ran 7.67 et @93mph.
    Only change between first and 2nd run was removing air filters on turbskies.
    3rd run was quickest with a 7.43 et @ 95mph with a 1.62 60' foot. Not bad for first run ever.
    Anyways this post is for advice and not to tell my story but I thought some info on the setup was in order for further advice.
    Air/water intercooler is coming soon along with alternator and e-fan. Also considering heat blankets for exh. Side of turbos.? Hopefully that will help overall heat soak in the engine bay and Intake side of turbos maybe?? And timing controller is top of the list.

    Considering everything I've listed what kind of boost do you think I can push safely with the current setup I'm running?
    Any advice on JUST tuning that would allow higher psi safely?

    Also plan to expirament with either 3.42 or 3.23 final drive because the 1/4 pass Resulted in roughly 6k rpms at the finish and I assume that with the stall and boost it will pull the lower ratio no problem.

    Comments and advice are welcome!
     
  2. barrrf

    barrrf Website QC

    Age:
    37
    Posts:
    4,366
    Likes Received:
    804
    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Location:
    Michigan....Bitch
    Youre asking how much boost you can safely run on a stock crate 350 without us knowing who built the crate motor, what stuff is inside this crate motor, etc etc?

    My opinion, crank it up. When it blows, stop there.
     
  3. cyber_ballz

    cyber_ballz New Member

    Age:
    47
    Posts:
    21
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2015
    Another perspective...

    All that shit you listed, and your worried about blowing up a mystery box?

    Sent from my One using Tapatalk
     
  4. Regularcabkid

    Regularcabkid GMFS Member

    Posts:
    48
    Likes Received:
    3
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2017
    It is a 'GM performance 602' crate engine? From.. GM?
    The seal bolts have only been pulled to put 0 gap rings/thinner rod bearings. And replaced factory valve springs. I'm confused frankly, I assumed a sealed crate engine was common knowledge to folks

    http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Chevr...0-IMCA-Seal-602-Chevy-Crate-Engine,67820.html
     
  5. Regularcabkid

    Regularcabkid GMFS Member

    Posts:
    48
    Likes Received:
    3
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2017
    I don't understand what you find mysterious. If Don't have advice or something positive to say then save it.

    http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Chevr...0-IMCA-Seal-602-Chevy-Crate-Engine,67820.html
    Here's the link to the exact engine I'm running minus rod bearing width and 0-gapped rings. (Probably has some gap back in it now lol)
     
  6. Regularcabkid

    Regularcabkid GMFS Member

    Posts:
    48
    Likes Received:
    3
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2017
    I figured this would be a hot topic
     
  7. barrrf

    barrrf Website QC

    Age:
    37
    Posts:
    4,366
    Likes Received:
    804
    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Location:
    Michigan....Bitch
    0 gap rings, cast iron heads, hyper-e pistons.............

    just toss that motor now
     
  8. cyber_ballz

    cyber_ballz New Member

    Age:
    47
    Posts:
    21
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2015
    Blaaaaahhhhhhhh!

    ^^



    Sent from my One using Tapatalk
     
  9. Hogg

    Hogg GMFS Member

    Posts:
    1,243
    Likes Received:
    15
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    Location:
    Ontario Canada
    Pretty much a stock Vortec 350 with some minimal mods

    No idea how much more you can push it, but as with anything lower compression, less initial timing and cooler intake temps and higher fuel octane will keep you out of detonation. Det those stock PM rods and they'll shatter in quick order.

    Not knowing what gears you have right now, some higher gears should help bring that 6000rpm trap rpm down some and might help with traction

    peace
    Hog
     
  10. Regularcabkid

    Regularcabkid GMFS Member

    Posts:
    48
    Likes Received:
    3
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2017
    IMG_0586.JPG
    Appreciate the helpful response. Glad there aren't only negative nellys on here.
    I'm running 3.73s on 28" radials. I had the to find my notes to remember what gears were on the posi unit.
    I'm thinking 3.23s in the next few weeks but I'm surprisingly hooking perfectly on full boost off the line. Not sure how the valves are holding up on boost with stock spring pressure at 6k and I probably don't want to.
    Timing controller should help take some worry away.
    Right now It's locked at 24 degrees and now holding steady. Was pulling timing before but I just wired up a working alt. And seems set throughout the revs.
    Also got rid of the mechanical fan for electrical in line with working alt. as planned.
    Without thermostat you can run around town all day and it won't tip over 140, but the only full run in the 1/4 Ive run pulled the temp right up to 180 so I'm scared to get any more aggressive on the timing until I run an intercooler.
    I was worried about detonation with with the shit rods/0 gap rings and running pump 93 but it ran fine on 7psi again and again on wot runs.
    This being said I did turn it up to 9psi lol
    I assume the rings have opened up a bit since boosting it and 7psi on pump seems like a breeze, so 9psi on 110 sounds safe from det if I cool her off well between runs.?? (Kind of asking there).
    When I pipe intercooler I think timing might come up 2-3 degrees but I better not touch it before I have a controller.
    Haven't run track with 9psi or fan set up but it runs hard as sh*t now.

    I would really love some suggestions of use.
    Anybody run boost on similar setup?
    Good ways to keep temp down on a full pass?
    Am I being conservative with the timing?
    Heat blankets help IATs?

    Anyways thanks again for the positive response. IMG_0582.JPG
     
  11. Regularcabkid

    Regularcabkid GMFS Member

    Posts:
    48
    Likes Received:
    3
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2017
    Why would I do that. Runs great and including the cost of a new 602 crate and the truck. I have a mid 11s street/strip ride with MAYBE $6500 invested total.
    Maybe 1200$ in parts got me over 500hp at 7 pounds for several thousand miles reliably with less than ideal ring gap for boost and powdered rods on an engine apparently most would toss.
    I'm trying to maximize what I have so I can see how far it can go.
    If I wanted to start from go I'd start a thread about that.
    Helpful advice welcome and appreciated.
    Thanks!
     
  12. Phildirt

    Phildirt n. fil-dert.

    Posts:
    2,465
    Likes Received:
    1,521
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2016
    Location:
    Jacksonvile Flarda
    Quit crying about the quality of the advice. This isn't a "get all of the answers you want to hear" nut hugging forum.

    I like the truck, I had a rcsb Sonoma with the 6cyl and always wanted to drop a 350 in it but lost interest before moving on to bigger trucks.
     
  13. Tim W

    Tim W Timbrage: Engage

    Age:
    33
    Posts:
    5,006
    Likes Received:
    501
    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Location:
    Battle Creek, MI

    you literally could have done the same thing with a junkyard 5.3 and been into the whole project for less than 5k and been approximately 400% more reliable
     
  14. barrrf

    barrrf Website QC

    Age:
    37
    Posts:
    4,366
    Likes Received:
    804
    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Location:
    Michigan....Bitch
    I know you dont WANT to toss it and start over. But it'll toss itself soon and you'll be back at square 1 anyways.

    With those cast iron heads heat soak is a concern. So you can intercool your ass off but while youre waiting for your turn at the track those heads are heating up and holding that in forever. If all you do is track this truck, pour some 115 to it, get you a wideband, timing controller, and monitor knock and run it.
     
  15. Regularcabkid

    Regularcabkid GMFS Member

    Posts:
    48
    Likes Received:
    3
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2017
    Wasn't about the quality
    It's a street/strip weekend ride.
    It's not intercooled now but soon.
    Running leaded 110 right now.
    Have a wideband 02, seeing about 11.9-12.2 at WOT but I haven't looked since I turned it up to 9 pounds.
    No joke though, I will let the oil get hot before I run it, and after the 1/8th mile it needs about an hour with the hood open to see the temp drop back down.
    The damn turbos are heat soaked so bad after about 2 runs.
    I switched an e fan up a few weeks ago, hoping this will help between runs.
    I am curious, how can I monitor knock?
    Just add a knock sensor to the water jacket drain on the side?

    After this thing pops it's getting a 4.8l
    I'd been wanting to do a turbo 4.8 before I even had the Sonoma.
    But hell, I'd be hard pressed to pass up using this motor since the race cars are gone, otherwise it would just sit until.. shit idk now
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
    barrrf likes this.
  16. barrrf

    barrrf Website QC

    Age:
    37
    Posts:
    4,366
    Likes Received:
    804
    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Location:
    Michigan....Bitch
    Totally agree. If you already have it, use it. I wouldnt dump anymore money into it is all Im trying to say - but pros used too many words.

    When you build the 4.8..........post it here.
     
  17. Regularcabkid

    Regularcabkid GMFS Member

    Posts:
    48
    Likes Received:
    3
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2017
    Well if I'm going to finish what I started and give it the parts to properly run boost.
    Nothing internal, just what I've already listed in previous posts.
    I think low 11s or very high 10s are possible, but i don't expect it to live many passes if I can get it there.

    Anybody have any experience with turbo blankets?
    I know it's mainly for bearing (coke?/colk?) but I wonder if it will keep the heat out of the bay and maybe help IATs.
    There is a possibility it could raise IATs as well I suppose.
     
  18. Regularcabkid

    Regularcabkid GMFS Member

    Posts:
    48
    Likes Received:
    3
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2017
    Here is link to video of first pass at the track.
    Enjoy
     
  19. barrrf

    barrrf Website QC

    Age:
    37
    Posts:
    4,366
    Likes Received:
    804
    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Location:
    Michigan....Bitch
    Looks neato.

    Run that blanket to keep engine bay heat down. May have to worry about heat soaking while chillin in the staging area if you dont run an oil cooler though.
     
  20. Tim W

    Tim W Timbrage: Engage

    Age:
    33
    Posts:
    5,006
    Likes Received:
    501
    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Location:
    Battle Creek, MI
    this thread took a very positive turn, most noobs dont take advice from us, good on ya @Regularcabkid
     

Share This Page