Electrical system upgrades...Opinions required.

Discussion in 'Audio & Electronics' started by SilverSquared, Jan 12, 2018.

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  1. SilverSquared

    SilverSquared EscaWHAT?

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    I am about to change my amps. I currently have dB Drive A7 75.4 and dB Drive A7 1500.1.
    I am getting Orion XTR 4000.1 and Orion XTR 1700.4.

    I am getting a dual alternator bracket/belt setup. Having a pair of 160a stock alts rebuilt at
    a local place that does some pretty nice upgrades for a good price. Nobody local has ever
    had a bad experience, so I'll give him a shot.

    Under my hood I have a stock location battery (behind driver headlight) and I have the tray
    to put one on the passenger fender.

    Should I put a stereo battery there, like an XS D4800? Or should I put it in the bed, closer to
    the amps?

    For the amps I am going Dual 1/0 inputs on each power and each ground. on each power lead pair
    I will have a 2 way fused distro block. This will give me 3-1/0 runs for each amp, giving me 1 spare
    lead for whatever else I may add. This is the distro Im referring to.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/KnuKonceptz-KNF36-2-Way-1-0-Gauge-Fuse-Distribution-Block-Dual-1-0-Out-w-Fuses/380701568113?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

    So, with that being said, battery and battery location is what I need opinions on, truly. I was
    considering the Kinetik HC3800 batteries too. From the alt, I think I will run a pair of 1/0 for the
    charging leads. Will it suffice, or should I go dual 2/0?

    I do NOT park n play my systems. I play when driving. I mute at stop lights n such. When people
    so ask to hear, I do demo, but thats RARE. Just want to get it straight before I install the new XTR
    setup.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  2. ibanender

    ibanender www.emfcaraudio.com

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    The only way you could make this more of a list of things I wouldn't do is to say you're using Sky High wire. Those Orion amps are overrated crap. Doing a pair of stock alts is way more effort and probably more cost than just doing a good single alternator to get at best the same result. I would put an XS Power battery from EMF under the hood, but that won't be enough, you'll need one in the back too (for best results). Doing the second one under the hood is OK but remember, you have the full amperage draw from the amps going through that which is close to 500 amps. For that you'd have to run two runs of OFC 1/0 front to back compared to doing 1 run by putting the battery in the back. I'll spare the story on why you should avoid Kinetik.

    Now, with that out of the way, I will also mention the dual power inputs are a waste of money. You won't see a difference, at all. Even for SPL you gain a few tenths when wired below 0.5, that's it. There is a reason they don't have a bunch of power inputs from the manufacturer, it doesn't need it.
     
  3. Nasty

    Nasty GMFS Senior Member

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    This
     
  4. SilverSquared

    SilverSquared EscaWHAT?

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    What alt would you recommend?
     
  5. Nasty

    Nasty GMFS Senior Member

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    2 xs under the hood. 1 single hairpin alt. Depending on the amp maybe another battery on the inside
     
  6. ibanender

    ibanender www.emfcaraudio.com

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    There are only 2 brands of alternator I will use, DC Power and Excessive Amperage. Those are the only 2 that have never failed on me and do what they're supposed to do.
     
  7. Nasty

    Nasty GMFS Senior Member

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    I have a uslternators 240 amp in my 07
     
  8. ibanender

    ibanender www.emfcaraudio.com

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    That's not the one from Ebay for $200 is it? That sounds like the name, and they do about 120 amps and fail after 9 months, routinely.
     
  9. Nasty

    Nasty GMFS Senior Member

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    No I'm not that dumb. How it started from what the owner told me was he needed an alt for his car. He went to dc paid. And they couldn't do it. So he started building his own.
     
  10. SilverSquared

    SilverSquared EscaWHAT?

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    On Tuesday I picked up, or was given rather, an EA 350a alt. Friend of mine wasnt using it so he gave it to me. It is an older unit, but still works.
    I'll run it as a second alt, so the stereo can have its own isolated charging system.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. ibanender

    ibanender www.emfcaraudio.com

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    I run a single DC Power 370 with way more power than you. Don't bother with the dual, just use that one.
     
  12. SilverSquared

    SilverSquared EscaWHAT?

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    HOLY SHIT THE XTR4000.1 HAS BALLS!

    Tested it in a friends ride. He's got 2 Taramps 5ks on 4-fu 15s.
    No idea what he meters, hes never tested it.
    He has an EA alternator and 4 batteries in the bed. Dont know
    the battery sizes, didnt ask. He unconnected his pair of 5ks and
    put my xtr in its place. It was banging those subs really nicely.
    He had 1ohm at each amp, so in parallel my amp was at 0.5,
    plus whatever the box rise was. HOLY SHIT! is all i could say!

    I cant wait to get my stuff installed. (and destroy the subs)
    Already eyeballing some enclosure designs and new subs.
     
  13. ibanender

    ibanender www.emfcaraudio.com

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    It's not that the XTR4000.1 is that strong, it's that the Taramps 5k's are weak and inefficient LOL. A customer of mine clamped his XTR4000 doing 2,800 watts in his car.
     
  14. Nasty

    Nasty GMFS Senior Member

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    Brazilian amps are only good if you have enough electrical to power a small city. Even then I really would never use them. Those bitches get hot
     
  15. SilverSquared

    SilverSquared EscaWHAT?

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    Wow. Pretty shitty that after all these years Derek Willis is nothing more than an inexperienced liar I guess.
    SMD and D'amore pretty much the captains of that failboat, right? Seems I've been seeking knowledge from
    the WRONG place for a long time. Lead on ibanender. I'll take your advice from here on out.

    As soon as you can prove to me that your customer clamped an XTR4000 at 2800w. And I dont care if it was
    at 2 or 4 ohms. I want to see this number at 1 ohm.



    That was a 2500. Incase you didnt watch. 6744w @ 1 ohm, 9:22 in vid if curious.
    I wont post what the 4k was clamped at in his truck. But it damn sure was not 2800w. Even at 2ohm on 1 sub.

    Bet if I bought what you sell, I'd do what it says, right? Would be a real bargain in the Car audio industry, right?
    SAX 125.4 and SAE 1500d would have been the closest in what I paid, but would humiliate the XTRs? Dont worry
    whatever you come back with sir, will go uncontested. I am literally done in my very own thread. You win.
    I bought a 2800w amp. I should have gotten the 2500.1


    I agree with you Nasty. They do get hot. Even the 2 and 4ch being played hard gets a pretty good bit toasty.
     
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  16. Nasty

    Nasty GMFS Senior Member

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    Rise has a lot to do with it as well. My Silverado for some reason there was a lot of rise so I had to wire lower to compensate

    The smd damore stuff if good for a rough number but in vehicle it' totally different
     
  17. ibanender

    ibanender www.emfcaraudio.com

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    You could have stopped at "Brazilian amps are only", they're never good. They're unreliable, they catch fire, they're inefficient, they don't make rated power, it's dirty as hell power which in turn burns the leads on your sub. I have a great example of what Brazilian power does to a coil.

    I can only assume you're mad because you base everything you know about audio on amp dyno videos. So, since you're experiencing rectal discomfort, I'll further explain why he clamped 2,800 watts and why amp dyno tests are basically garbage. My customer used a Termlab to meter his car and that's the power it showed, in car, while metering. It wasn't on a bench with high voltage, on resistors, playing 1 specific frequency. That is a REAL number. Now, in reference to your video, the 6,744 is dynamic burst, AKA PEAK power with distortion. I'll go one step further and point out that you can manipulate numbers on an amp dyno. I know because a manufacturer told me how they do it. Additionally, software updates will change power test numbers. There are tests that aren't 100% perfect, this was demonstrated by Taylor Gardner testing some 2,000 watt amp with an AMM1 (works the same way) saying it did over 10,000 watts. I'd LOVE to see what that 4k clamped in his truck, because I bet it was lower than that 2,500 allegedly doing 6,744. The bottom line is, NOT on resistors, in a car, with a dual 1 sub wired to 1 ohm on his amp, he saw 2,800 watts IN A REAL WORLD APPLICATION. If you want real world results, test them in real world applications. It's very possible an SAE-1500d could give you a marginally lower SPL than the XTR4000, the way to find out is to test it, in a car, not a bench. A perfect example, Craig Butler had Brazilian amps, went to 20,000 watts less Korean power, and gained 0.8 dB.

    Another fine point about Brazilian amps, when they blow up, they take your speakers with it.
     
  18. ibanender

    ibanender www.emfcaraudio.com

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    But don't just take my word for it...

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    How is it possible that the same power yields a 33% difference in reality? #youdontlistentoresistors
     
  19. mitchell0715

    mitchell0715 GMFS Member

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    So, I'm interested in having a discussion with you about this. From where I stand, I find Brazilians hit or miss. There are some that produce rated power, and are just as reliable as a Korean topology (it can depend if it was built in China, expect less reliability if built in china).

    I can agree that there are problems plaguing SOME of them, but they are getting worked out. The new Taramps Bass line, and MD line, are something to look out for. So are Banda 7k's (if you get one with output fets that are matched properly) and their 10k and 15k.

    To say they ALL suck is just plain wrong, there's a multitude of people on other car audio forums who have had more "Korean" amplifiers fail on them than full bridge. You realize Mmats also produces full bridge designs?
     
  20. Phildirt

    Phildirt n. fil-dert.

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    :popcorn:
     

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