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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Say I was to take a 9" center section and hard mount it. Then build a looooong travel IFS front setup with 24"-28" of vertical travel. Then for knuckles use mog 419 stuff to drop the wheel centerline down while keeping the axle shaft angles relatively flat at ride height.

Now build some half shafts out of beef material such as porsche plunging cv's and... ? They would only see ~50% of the wheel load due to the reduction at the hub.

This is just something I've been thinking of since I want my buggy to be go fast friendly and a solid axle just isn't... I mean it can be but you take so many compromises by using a solid axle in the front. If I can get 26" of travel per side it should articulate alright as long as spring rates are good plus I can design in some camber change to get the tires to lean in during full compression to give the solid axle characteristics when articulating to keep the tire on the edge of the "rock".

Hrm...

Guess I could build it and just be out the time if it fails, just throw in the solid axle front and be back to normal.
 

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do it
 

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DeepSouth Gangster
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Hahaha. That sounded like it came off PavementSucks.com:crazy:
 

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Weird Turns Pro.
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you are a mad man :read:

it does sound interesting though. But wasnt one of the downsides to strong CV shafts that the actual diff will explode since the CVs wont go first? or would you plan on using the center section out of a 3/4 or 1 ton for more beef? (and the ability for a locker)

edit: I realize after re reading that you would use a real axles center section, instead of an actual pussy IFS diff, dont mind me :rofl2:
 

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Drive It Like Ya Stole It
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A few comp teams have run similar setups - they have had some sucess but all in the end switched back to a live axle due to simplicity. Things you will have to worry about with the IFS

-joints - fact of the matter is your going to need some beef balljoints/uniballs, I would use some kind of cartidge joint at the control arms as well

-alignment - your going to need to devise some way to hold it - im assuming you will build in adjustability and we all know cam bolts never stay in place unless you literally weld the bitches - then you have lost your adjustability!

-CVs - honestly dont think it will be that big of a deal - ther are some strong ones out there and like you mentioned it will be before the portals - h1 cvs hold up decent under some pretty heavy loads and they are POS gm ones... Just $$$ becomes relevant when your going with bling cvs

-sway bar - going to take some fitting to get it in probably - but not to big of a deal but cant be forgot


Overall I agree that its doable - but is it really worth it? What are all the rock racers running? You going to use a hi pinion 9" center especially being in a front application?
 

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JetBlue
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Do it!

I really wanna see some custom IFS/portal action....

-bZj
 

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I wheel my ifs all the time, you'll be fine!! :pow:
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
A few comp teams have run similar setups - they have had some sucess but all in the end switched back to a live axle due to simplicity. Things you will have to worry about with the IFS
Yeah I'm aware and they all did something crazy like Walkers rig, KISS.

-joints - fact of the matter is your going to need some beef balljoints/uniballs, I would use some kind of cartidge joint at the control arms as well
Joints at the knuckle will be Uniballs.

-alignment - your going to need to devise some way to hold it - im assuming you will build in adjustability and we all know cam bolts never stay in place unless you literally weld the bitches - then you have lost your adjustability!

The a-arms will be 1-1/4 heims which will provide the adjustability. Why would I mess with cams and all that garbage.

-CVs - honestly dont think it will be that big of a deal - ther are some strong ones out there and like you mentioned it will be before the portals - h1 cvs hold up decent under some pretty heavy loads and they are POS gm ones... Just $$$ becomes relevant when your going with bling cvs
I think a strong cv will be fine, especially with the load reduction.

-sway bar - going to take some fitting to get it in probably - but not to big of a deal but cant be forgot
No sway bar in front, only in rear.

Overall I agree that its doable - but is it really worth it? What are all the rock racers running? You going to use a hi pinion 9" center especially being in a front application?
A few rock racers run IFS with hmmwv boxes up front, seem to hold up so far. Most run solid axles and it limits there jumping ability. I'm going to use the 9" I've already bought. 35 spline pinion pro geared nod. housings with low pinions. Mogs spin backwards so I put a low pinion diff in upside down giving hi-pinion.

coonbottom said:
Just buy you one of these, dont go cutting up good axles.
I'm sure you have seen my build thread, I've already cut up the axles. I'm fabbing my own housings and just using the inner/outer knuckles of the u419's. So like I said, if it doesn't work, I cut off the IFS and link a solid axle under there.
 

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Sounds like a plan.
9" center, RCV Performance slipshaft cv's, mog portals, long travel a arms. Another thing you might want to consider if you do IRS is a rear arm setup like the Bombardier Outlander(among many examples). You will get longer arms in the same space and landings will resort in extended wheelbase instead of extended track width.


Outlander20800XT20bottom20yellow_jp.jpg

how have you factored in oiling with the diff upside down?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I've already done the oiling mods for the 9" center. Theres plenty of reading about it on pirate, I just copied JR's setup, works for him and his 500+ hp rig.

As far as that rear suspension setup, thats the same setup that most baja cars run nowadays, it works well, but I'll stay solid in the rear. The rear sees too much load to keep CV's happy plus the shear weigth on the rear when hopping on 10'+ ledges would mangle some stuff pretty quick.
 

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If you dont mind me asking but what do you do for a living that you can constantly afford to do all these crazy set ups and have the time to do them?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I get electrocuted for a living?


It's not all that expensive, I fabricate everything so it's not like I'm dumping $150 an hour at a shop. And I collect parts over long periods of time plus I have alot of connections and get good deals and find alot of realllly good used stuff. It's all about who you know.

As far as time, I only work my real job 5 days a week so I work on my stuff on weekends. Not having a girlfriend or wife leaves all kinds of free time. Plus I work at night after work in the garage tinkering with new ideas till they work. Right now I'm too busy to work on much since I am remodeling my house in my free time which is why I am in a design/parts collecting stage for the new ride right now. If I wasn't working on my house I'd have pics of the chassis up already.

It seems as if I type this out on everyone of my threads, maybe it should just be a sticky lol.
 

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Yeah I'm aware and they all did something crazy like Walkers rig, KISS
What are you talking about? You're talking about fitting Mog stuff on here. Walkers rig was like the ATV right? Just using 60 housings?
IIRC they changed to a solid axle setup before the season was over.

Are you not going to use the housings you fabbed up? I think that was going to be the setup. You're still building the rig you posted on here (solidworks drawings) right?
 

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I get electrocuted for a living?


It's not all that expensive, I fabricate everything so it's not like I'm dumping $150 an hour at a shop. And I collect parts over long periods of time plus I have alot of connections and get good deals and find alot of realllly good used stuff. It's all about who you know.
electrician or electrical engineer and im sure you are right about having the right connections. its just hard to find shit where i live
 

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As for collecting those parts, is it just me or is that the 9" you got like 3 years ago?

I think it was on ORC that you said you picked it up off of eBay.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
What are you talking about? You're talking about fitting Mog stuff on here. Walkers rig was like the ATV right? Just using 60 housings?
IIRC they changed to a solid axle setup before the season was over.

Are you not going to use the housings you fabbed up? I think that was going to be the setup. You're still building the rig you posted on here (solidworks drawings) right?
He used 60 centers yes. But I'm talking about his suspension setup. He used a weird trailin arm type of setup in front and rear, his front suspension was a mirror of his rear suspension. He had no camber change through articulation which killed it in off camber and articulated conditions. Plus his front had to move forward as it went up which made it even harder to climb things. I'm talking straight, double a-arm, TT style suspension. Tuned properly of course.

Yes he did change back, only because he did not want to spend the time/money to fix it. They designed it once, did that weird ass suspension, and it didn't work.

Yes still building the 3d modeled rig, I was just never able to come up with a front suspension I liked. I came up with 3-4 different solid fronts but could not get the shock numbers I wanted. Plus heavily angling the shocks to get more travel meant faster wear on rod guides and everything else.

Smith said:
electrician or electrical engineer and im sure you are right about having the right connections. its just hard to find shit where i live
Electrician. I've worked my bunz off becoming the best guy in the company and my pay reflects that.

4x4mike said:
As for collecting those parts, is it just me or is that the 9" you got like 3 years ago?

I think it was on ORC that you said you picked it up off of eBay.
Good memory and yes that is one of them. I need a 2nd still though. I'm building the rear axle right now, still need to buy the parts for the front. Custom built from scratch ARB's and 2 piece 300m axle shafts are expensive :insane:

Got the gears used, 4.10 pro-gears. The pro-gears are softer to help live through 1500hp drag launches so they are not ideal for street and high mileage stuff. So they have been cryo treated to surface harden them. They worked well for the previous owner so I'll see. If they suck I'll go to 35 spline pinion reg. gears. I'll have a spare complete spool'd third member on the rig at all times. Should only take 30 minutes to swap.

coonbottom said:
uhm...maybe?

[looks around]
http://www.gmfullsize.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77302&highlight=2007
 
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