GMC Truck Forum banner

1 - 20 of 35 Posts

·
Jackson Action
Joined
·
90 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi guys, just want to know if anyone have tried one or both of these products from cognito motorsports.

I have the CST 6-8" lift kit and cognito offer HD End Links for 4-6" and for 7-9" lift. So which one should i get?

On the other hand i think that the Heim Joint Tie Rods would be a nice upgrade.

Also thinking about the idler pivot assembly. guys running it, do you feel the difference? does it worth it?
 

·
Swamper Brotherhood
Joined
·
3,894 Posts
i've heard its a nice upgrade

i wish i could find the heim joint tie rods for a obs
 

·
GMFS Military Member
Joined
·
10,899 Posts
Get the HEIMs for sure, i dont know what to tell you about the endlinks. Id just call em and ask them though.
 

·
Later, Tony
Joined
·
7,265 Posts
You'd have to call Cognito about the endlinks, but with their kits, they use a longer endlink because the swaybar remains in the factory position. With your CST kit, it is dropped, so you'd use a stock length endlink, which I don't know if they offer. The heim joint tie rods are a good investment and stronger than the weak stock parts. If you're noticing some slop in your steering it is likely in the idler arm and idler pivot (mine was trashed, leaking grease/oil profusely). I'd think you'd be better off with the pitman/idler arm supports instead of the idler pivot if yours isn't worn out :imo
 

·
Jackson Action
Joined
·
90 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
You'd have to call Cognito about the endlinks, but with their kits, they use a longer endlink because the swaybar remains in the factory position. With your CST kit, it is dropped, so you'd use a stock length endlink, which I don't know if they offer. The heim joint tie rods are a good investment and stronger than the weak stock parts. If you're noticing some slop in your steering it is likely in the idler arm and idler pivot (mine was trashed, leaking grease/oil profusely). I'd think you'd be better off with the pitman/idler arm supports instead of the idler pivot if yours isn't worn out :imo
The CST kit drops the swaybar 1" and it came with longer replacements endlinks. i send an email to them and this is what they answer:

. Can i install your Upper Control Arm to replace the factory one and Dual Shock Hoop
with my CST lift kit? (i have factory spindles) YES, I WOULDN’T KNOW WHAT SIZE SHOCK TO USE THOUGH. YOU HAVE TO USE MY HOOPS AND ARMS FOR DUAL SHOCKS

2. Is your Pitman and Idler Arm Kit with the Idler Pivot Assembly Kit for 1500 light duty or just
for the heavy duty? ONLY DO THE IDLER PIVOT FOR THE CST KIT. THE PITMAN AND IDLER KIT WILL NOT WORK.

3. And also is the Tie Rod Steering Kit for the 1500 light duty?LOOK UNDER 6LUG 4wd PRODUCTS
 

·
OG Member
Joined
·
4,862 Posts
The CST kit drops the swaybar 1" and it came with longer replacements endlinks. i send an email to them and this is what they answer:

. Can i install your Upper Control Arm to replace the factory one and Dual Shock Hoop
with my CST lift kit? (i have factory spindles) YES, I WOULDN’T KNOW WHAT SIZE SHOCK TO USE THOUGH. YOU HAVE TO USE MY HOOPS AND ARMS FOR DUAL SHOCKS

2. Is your Pitman and Idler Arm Kit with the Idler Pivot Assembly Kit for 1500 light duty or just
for the heavy duty? ONLY DO THE IDLER PIVOT FOR THE CST KIT. THE PITMAN AND IDLER KIT WILL NOT WORK.

3. And also is the Tie Rod Steering Kit for the 1500 light duty?LOOK UNDER 6LUG 4wd PRODUCTS
1. Contact CST to figure out what shock length they use for dual shock setup and that will be your answer to that right there.

2. The pitman/idler arm supports probably wont work due to the design of the CST centerlink drop bracket. I know when I ran my Superlift kit I couldnt run their pitman/idler arm supports because of this. Can you get a picture?

3. http://cognitomotorsports.com/store/page21.html
 

·
Later, Tony
Joined
·
7,265 Posts
Oh word I forgot about that Justin, but Doug ran them successfully with his 6.5" FTS. I think they work, it's just not recommended due to the different centerlink and different steering geometry. That being said, I'd venture to guess that the upgraded idler pivot with a Moog idler arm would be a solid setup.
 

·
Show Trucks R 4 Gays
Joined
·
478 Posts
The tie rod kit is a nice upgrade, But if you actually offroad. Buy a bunch of spare studs or make your own on a lathe. I would break or bend a few every trip. You could also drill out the knuckle and run some high misalignment spacers with a grade 8 bolt and another spacer on the bottom of the high mis to achieve the right height.

IMG_0157-1.jpg
 

·
NCOR
Joined
·
8,449 Posts
OMG! OMG! I thought everything that was zinc yellow chromate plated was grade 8 and I thought grade bolts were super brittle and would just snap not bend! OMG! :insertsarcasmdetectorhere:

Those tapered studs don't allow you to use a spacer and it's shoulder to work against the effective bending moment. Stupid design for a rig with big tires IMO even without a ram attached. I could put together a better fastener package on my lunch break if I knew the taper:blah:
 

·
Show Trucks R 4 Gays
Joined
·
478 Posts
OMG! OMG! I thought everything that was zinc yellow chromate plated was grade 8 and I thought grade bolts were super brittle and would just snap not bend! OMG! :insertsarcasmdetectorhere:

Those tapered studs don't allow you to use a spacer and it's shoulder to work against the effective bending moment. Stupid design for a rig with big tires IMO even without a ram attached. I could put together a better fastener package on my lunch break if I knew the taper:blah:
The 1/2 ton studs are not grade 8.....There 5... if I knew what I did now. First of all I would never have went with IFS. Second, I would have built my own steering If I went with cognito. But your right, It is a very stupid ass design.
 

·
NCOR
Joined
·
8,449 Posts
The 1/2 ton studs are not grade 8.....There 5... if I knew what I did now. First of all I would never have went with IFS. Second, I would have built my own steering If I went with cognito. But your right, It is a very stupid ass design.

I was kidding. Everybody always immediately combines zinc yellow chromate, which is a coating with grade 8. I was trying to display all the blatant fastener faux pas I could with that one image.

Oh and I got bored while eating my large Togo's #3 (mmmm).

rodendiso.jpg

rodendexp.jpg


The taper isn't right, I just guestimated, but it would be really simple to change in the revolved sketch of the shank.

I'd probably have the stud made from preheat 4140, have it turned and (unfortunately) have the threads cut, then through harden it and stress relieve it and have it plated. I modeled ZYC, but even black oxide would probably be fine. Other than the lack of rolled threads it should mimick the strength characteristics and surface hardness of a grade 8 bolt while not exhibiting extreme through hardness.
 

·
Clit and Tire Liquifier
Joined
·
1,199 Posts
Ive got all the cognito upgrades on my truck and it made a big difference in how the steering feelins especially when hitting bumps. They do make stock length HD sway bar end links, Ive got them on my truck, to clear the boot of the HD tie rods when at full droop and turning.
 

·
Jackson Action
Joined
·
90 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
1. Contact CST to figure out what shock length they use for dual shock setup and that will be your answer to that right there.

2. The pitman/idler arm supports probably wont work due to the design of the CST centerlink drop bracket. I know when I ran my Superlift kit I couldnt run their pitman/idler arm supports because of this. Can you get a picture?

3. http://cognitomotorsports.com/store/page21.html
The End Links that came with CST measure 9" long. I replace the Pitman and idler about 3 months ago they are both MOOG.

Here are some pics:

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww340/JacksonAction/Mechanical/DSC01070.jpg

http://i733.photobucket.com/albums/ww340/JacksonAction/Mechanical/DSC01071.jpg
 

·
Jackson Action
Joined
·
90 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
The tie rod kit is a nice upgrade, But if you actually offroad. Buy a bunch of spare studs or make your own on a lathe. I would break or bend a few every trip. You could also drill out the knuckle and run some high misalignment spacers with a grade 8 bolt and another spacer on the bottom of the high mis to achieve the right height.

IMG_0157-1.jpg
Are those from Cognito? So basically you´re saying that there not as good as they say?
 

·
Bad Luck is all i got.
Joined
·
1,483 Posts
I just ordered my Heim Joint kit from cognito. As for the picture with the bent part what are the specs on the truck, tires, etc? theres a difference between strength and durability and how they hold up under "normal and offroad" situations and then theres how the hold up to "abuse".
 

·
NCOR
Joined
·
8,449 Posts
The cognito studs are stress proof steel which is very strong.
Uh, yea...Stressproof(R) or 1144 mod is a decently tough alloy but it's main draw is that it machines much easier in it's produced state and doesn't require post heat treatment.

4140 however can be machined in it's anealed state and not incure unecesary wear on tooling and then be heat treated and stress relieved after to produce a much stronger and ductile material than Stressproof(R) was to begin with. We're talking about a 25% increase in tensional strength and ~10% increase in elongation. Obviously the FOS of the stud wasn't high enough so it's not unecesary to rethink design including basic material right? I'd think the goal would be to make the factory stud on the pitman arm shear or at least yield before the stud on the knuckle.
 

·
NCOR
Joined
·
8,449 Posts
I would say no. If the pitman arm shears, you lose total steering.
Sigh.

The pitman arm is an OEM designed part, stronger than the stud on the knuckle quite apparently. If you make the knuckle stud stronger the whole system is stronger.

That stud pictured is toast, it's yielded and with a bit more fatigue will shear off leaving the passenger tire to flop around uncontrollably. I think a situation of relative worry has presented itself as is.

My point is, if you leave the stock pitman arm in the system when it breaks you're hosed regardless. Why not make it so the rest of the system won't break until at least then. At least that way you have pulled as much strength as you can without major rework to the linkage.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
The stud is as strong or stronger than the stock pitman arm stud & Idler arm stud & Stock tie-rod stud.
You have to remember, you have the strength of two studs at the centerlink. I think if the stud was any stronger, you would take the steering box off the frame. Or the centerlink would fold up.
Something has to give.
I would think movement in the pitman and idler arms or idler box is causing these to bend. This is why cognito is offering the other upgrades.
If you want a bomb proof system. You have to start from scratch. Changing the whole steering system.
 
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
Top