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Discussion Starter #1
I need to get rid of these Blocks I have out back.

I was all ready to get me a set of Deavers but now Im not sure.
Here is the thing. Everybody seems to tell me that unless you run an Airbag system out back the Deavers will squat BAD with any Tow/hauling. And I tend to use my truck when need be for these type things and it gets on the heavy side once and a while. But at the same time I can not justify a Bag setup in the rear just to help out the springs.
So I was wondering. What are some other GOOD spring companys I can look into that would make a spring of Deaver quality but be able to handle a nice payload when the job calls?

I have heard alcan springs, Atlas Springs on the board but really do not know anything about them.
Are there others? Are these "top notch" quality springs?
Is there anyone on here that runs a spring pack from one of these companys that can give me a little info on how they act when you Tow/Haul and just empty?

A rough Price guess would be nice also.

Thanks
 

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BDZ71 how much weigh are you talking? I pulled two Waverunners, put one in the bed and piled whatever other camping stuff I could in the bed. Plus I had the Can-back at the time and my Reunel bumper weighs in around 175lbs. Yes it was squatting but not bad. I couldn't believe how smooth the spring road with a load on them. The entire truck felt like a caddy going down the road. I would highly recommend them, if you aren't sure you can always order them a little stiffer. Alcan makes good springs from what I've heard as does National Springs. National is the most expensive, you pay for the name basically. I've heard some bad things about Atlas, primarily quality control issues but that is all second hand.
 

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Alcan can custom build the pack to your needs. I had them build the rear packs for my chevy and told them I wanted 4" of lift and I wanted the same load carry capacity as the stock springs, thats exactly what I got.
 

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ALCAN! I ordered mine and they look awesome, cant wait to get them on in a few days!!!!
 

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The deavers i have are awesome, i dont know who told you they squated bad but with a quad,bike,full size 38" spare, and tools in the back it was fine i barely saw any squat. Btw they ride very very nice.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
willyswanter said:
Alcan can custom build the pack to your needs. I had them build the rear packs for my chevy and told them I wanted 4" of lift and I wanted the same load carry capacity as the stock springs, thats exactly what I got.

Jason,

So I could just tell them I wanted a 6" spring for my truck that would carry as much as I could stock and they will build it. Will I need to measure for them or do they already know all that?
What do yall think a set will run me of these?

Im wanting to get rid of the blocks and Axel wrap. Hopefully improve my rear flex, Ride good and still be able to "use" the truck like I did before.
 

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BDZ71 said:
Im wanting to get rid of the blocks and Axel wrap. Hopefully improve my rear flex, Ride good and still be able to "use" the truck like I did before.
Tell them exactly that. Just tell them your model etc.. and also how much weight you normally carry. They will walk you through it. Takes 3 weeks to make them and expect about $600 for 6" springs.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
KoTToN said:
The deavers i have are awesome, i dont know who told you they squated bad but with a quad,bike,full size 38" spare, and tools in the back it was fine i barely saw any squat. Btw they ride very very nice.

I have had both told to me. People like you and people that say your payload goes to the dogs. You have bags to help out though dont you?

One person who told me they are not built for tow/hauling and I would need bags was a Deaver Dealer
 

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This may sound like something obvious, but dont forget that your truck had a 2" block stock. Tell them that you want to lift the back 6", plus get rid of the stock 2" block (since you said you dont want any blocks). So compared to the stock springs, I'm thinking that you'd need 8" over stock. Know what I mean? I'm sure if you just explain it to them, they'll know what to do. :D
 

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i have bags but they have no air in them because it makes the back too stiff. I had the bags for my stock springs before i went to deavers because my stock ones did squat and i didnt want to throw them out so i remounted them with the deavers cuz they give a cool look to the back suspension.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Grant said:
This may sound like something obvious, but dont forget that your truck had a 2" block stock. Tell them that you want to lift the back 6", plus get rid of the stock 2" block (since you said you dont want any blocks). So compared to the stock springs, I'm thinking that you'd need 8" over stock. Know what I mean? I'm sure if you just explain it to them, they'll know what to do. :D

Actually Grant that is a good point. But go ahead and :slap: me because I still have that factory 2" block. Yea I know its not the best of ideas but I needed a Full lift to clear these tires. so taking out the 2" to add the 5.5 would have only given me 3.5 and that was not going to cut it. So I stacked them and cranked the front to level.

So what would be the best option? 6" springs with the factory block to put it where it is sitting NOW,
or 8" springs w/o ANY blocks to put it where it is now?
 

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every inch higehr is like another $100 for teh set of springs just FYI
 

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BDZ71 said:
I have had both told to me. People like you and people that say your payload goes to the dogs. You have bags to help out though dont you?

One person who told me they are not built for tow/hauling and I would need bags was a Deaver Dealer
BD, Any of the spring builders should be able to make the spring as soft or stiff as you want. I talked to Deaver about this several months ago and they said they could do what ever I wanted. I think some of the reports that describe a lack of towing/hauling capacity are based on off the shelf springs. Deaver, and the others, make spring packs you can pick up "off the shelf" They come in standard heights, ie +4 +6 etc. These tend to be soft ride type springs and with those you will see some squating under load. If you go the custom order route its going to cost you more. I forgot about the stock block when I talked to Deaver so I don't know if they compensate for it or not. The best thing to do it to measure for your springs after you set your front height with your TBar keys. That way you can level your truck. They can make a 7 1/4 lift if you wanted and thats what you needed.

FWIW, here's what I am going to do. I have been told that the ORD shackle flip kit that we have been talking about will give better articulation than just a higher arch spring. So I am going to wait on that. Should be the end of the year. This will account for four inches. Then I am going to measure for the springs without the stock blocks. Should be somewhere in the +4 to +6 range. I am going to see if the spring builder will relocate the pin to compensate for the forward axle shift from the ORD flip kit. Although, right now I have no clue how I am going to measure for that.

BTW, new brake kit should be here Friday. :D
 

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BDZ71 said:
Actually Grant that is a good point. But go ahead and :slap: me because I still have that factory 2" block. Yea I know its not the best of ideas but I needed a Full lift to clear these tires. so taking out the 2" to add the 5.5 would have only given me 3.5 and that was not going to cut it. So I stacked them and cranked the front to level.

So what would be the best option? 6" springs with the factory block to put it where it is sitting NOW,
or 8" springs w/o ANY blocks to put it where it is now?

Yeah, I know that you still have the stock block back there. I was just saying that when you order springs and dont want any blocks back there, be sure that the spring manufacturer knows that you need more than just 6". If you ordered 6" lift springs, you'd still need the 2" block to get the full amount of lift. I'm not sure if I'm wording this right, so it might not make sense. Does it?
 

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They can easily moev teh pins OR you could do a ORD 1" zero rate block to fix it. Either way. Im just using teh zero rate since it also adds an inch.
 

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Dark Eternal said:
They can easily moev teh pins OR you could do a ORD 1" zero rate block to fix it. Either way. Im just using teh zero rate since it also adds an inch.
I've been thinking about that. I don't want to hijack BD's thread here, but the zero rates don't compensate for the change in pinion angle. And, despite reading ORD's web page, I am still not clear on how the zero rate isn't really just a 1 inch lift block. Please explain this if you can.

The pinion angle deal has got me thinking.... When you do a regular lift, the pinion angle, (I am assuming here that this is the angle the pinion makes with respect to the ground, am I right?) stays the same. Because the pinion and the output shaft of the TCase are now farther apart, the angle of the driveshaft U joints increase, but are roughly equal. I have been told that having the U joints, at each end of the driveshaft, at equal angles is necessary to avoid vibrations. Is this correct? If so, the flip kit might cause a problem. Because the spring is rotated around the front hanger, the pinion angle in now increased. Now IF I am thinking clearly about this, the U joint angle on the pinion end of the drive shaft will decrease. BUT the U joint angle at the Tcase output end will remain the same, thus vibration problems. The zero rate will relocate the axle rearward, but it won't correct the pinion angle. I am missing something here? Is what I have been told correct? Is it really better to not have a high pinion angle if this causes unequal U joint angles?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
01Z71GMC said:
BD, Any of the spring builders should be able to make the spring as soft or stiff as you want. I talked to Deaver about this several months ago and they said they could do what ever I wanted. I think some of the reports that describe a lack of towing/hauling capacity are based on off the shelf springs. Deaver, and the others, make spring packs you can pick up "off the shelf" They come in standard heights, ie +4 +6 etc. These tend to be soft ride type springs and with those you will see some squating under load. If you go the custom order route its going to cost you more. I forgot about the stock block when I talked to Deaver so I don't know if they compensate for it or not. The best thing to do it to measure for your springs after you set your front height with your TBar keys. That way you can level your truck. They can make a 7 1/4 lift if you wanted and thats what you needed.

...

BTW, new brake kit should be here Friday. :D

Yes very true. But I was told by someone that a custom made set of deavers (not the off the shelf soft ones) will run me $800+ for 6".
If I can get a 6" spring custom made by one of these other quality spring companys like Jason and DE are suggesting. I could have it custom made to basically the same thing I would with the deavers but for maby a little less. $600 Range.
But hey that is why I made the thread.. to get Ideas :anitoof: So keep them coming.
Brakes .. Good thing :D Will they go on friday when they come in?


Yes Grant I see what you are saying:waytogo:
 

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BDZ71 said:
Yes very true. But I was told by someone that a custom made set of deavers (not the off the shelf soft ones) will run me $800+ for 6".
Yeah thats about what I have heard also. And as DE pointed out, its about 100 bucks an inch. So if you get rid of the stock block, 2 inches, the CST block, (is 5.5 right?), and let's say add a half an inch for any Tbar cranking. Now you are at plus 8 which is going to cost you a Cleveland. Ouch! The flip kit will probably be in the $175 range and takes care of four of those eight inches. That gets you to a plus 4. You see where I am headed with this. If I can figure out the details I covered in my last post, you end up cheaper and with better articulation.

I am headed to Mooresville on Sat to deliver the kit(s) I may get the calipers powdercoated before I have them mounted. They will be polished Al. I am thinking about powdercoating them with a clearcoat called crystal clear. Should protect the polishing job. I'll try to take some pics before I leave.
 

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Ok - about the flip kit.

You are right about u joint being at teh same angle, they move in an ellipse and teh shaft actually speeds up and slows down 2 compleet times in a rotation. This is what causes vibration. If you have 2 at oposite angles they cancel eachother out. Now the ORD kit actually moved the shackle around to correct for pinion angle so they claim. If not, you would have to use a small shim. No big deal.

About a zero rate. Its a 1" block basically but it bolts into your spring pack like a leaf. It adds 1" and moves the axle a little to correct the forward moveent the flip caused. They are called zero rates because they add no ride stiffness like a add-a-leaf.
 
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