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A walking ball of wax
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3,549 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm looking for advice from the rotary users.

Every time I polish it seems that I get light/medium holograms.

What I'm using:

Optimum Polish
7.5" White LC Pad

How I use it:

Spread at 800-1000 rpm - 2 passes.
Break down - 1300-1500 rpm 2 passes.
Final pass - 800-1000 rpm - 1 pass.

Anyone have any ideas? I would expect holograms with a more aggressive compound, but OP it pretty light weight.

TIA
 

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My initial thought was keeping the pad flat. I always found that using a smaller pad was easier, (personal preference I'm sure) especially in the tighter areas of some cars like front corner panels, hatches, etc.
That link obviously has some good advice though.
 

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A walking ball of wax
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Great thread camaroguy!

Yeah Chris, I think it's my control of the rotary. Like noted in the thread, I steer with the handle which is a big no no. I'm just not used to the power yet.

I'm also going to try to finish with some lighter polishes and pads.
 

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Geresy Farms
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1,292 Posts
I really don't have experience with Optimum products but have you tried a black or blue pad after the white? Maybe even with a lighter polish, though it seems like you could get a nice finish with white/OP. And your just getting holograms with the OP as a 1 step? You didn't do like a 3 step and not fully work each of those? At the end as you were doing keep the RPM under 1000, I like to use very smooth, slow passes to work out any last holograms of micro marring. Im sure you know, but I throw it out there, are you allowing the polish to fully break-down? Not sure what what your take on a pass is, but seems like your going your not working it for long. Also maybe to much product? Are you working to big of an area? Also its not just left over polish residue? Maybe a IPA wipedown? Maybe try try a lower speed (1100 or so) and buff the area a bit longer with slower arm speed. Like Chris said try to keep the pad flat or close to, especially being foam. I have used 7.5"/8" pads back in the day, but didn't care for them and now use mostly 5.5" and sometimes 6.5". Though there are people that swear by the bigger pads. Yeah I'm done rambling, lol.
 

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Donnie, try finishing with an LC black pad and a light polish. Like a Menzerna 106ff or PO85rd.

What type of car/paint are you working? If its a newer black honda you are going to see holograms using a white pad since that paint is SUPER soft.
 

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To quote a couple of posts in the Autopia thread...
Cause of holograms based on my experience:

1. not laying the pad flat -

the edge of the pad tends to induce holograms in a straight linear following the pattern of the movement of your pad.

2. too much pressure -

it generates heat even if you move the pad frequently, thus creates oval shape holograms as opposed to #1

3. too much product - (and dry-buffing)

pad should be primed in order to lubricate, but too much product may also induce holograms, especially with polishes that contains too much oil. it happens when the abrasives had already broken down, and you only have the oils left on the surface. as you continue to buff, (believing that the product needs to dry-buff, i.e. dusting), the friction as well as the heat generated by the pad (both polishing and cutting pad), will tend to dry the oils as if embedding it in the surface in an uneven manner, and thus you can notice uneven reflections depending on the angle you're looking in, that is what you see as holograms.

4. too much speed -

too much product coupled with too much speed even without pressure, tends to instill holograms which happens when you have broken the diminishing abrasives quickly without you noticing it. the heat of the pad also tends to soften outer layer of the finish and is easily prone to marring.

What I generally do:

I don't dry buff generally any polish with the rotary. (except the compounds)
In the past, (as can be manifested in my previous posts), I believe that the rotary (specifically 9227c), is the only machine I need because it can run even at speed 600rpm. So in effect, I thought it can perform the job of a less powerful machine like the PC7424 or any dual-action/orbital buffer for that matter.

But then again I was wrong. there are times that after using the rotary, I need to reach for the PC to do the finishing touches.

HTH.
I too must admit that on certain finishes, there are times when I can't get the finish 100% swirl free, bottom line IMO is that you can't beat yourself up over it. Not saying you learn to live with it, but don't think you're doing something entirely wrong, because it truly can be difficult to get a swirl free finish. If I had a PC, I'd definitely reach for it at times. But I sold it a few years back as I was already proficient with the rotary when I bought the PC.
Also, dry buffing when you're finishing off a car definitely induces light holograms. I know from experience :D And there are times when I underestimate how much polish I have put on the pad and find myself doing a second pass. It's hit or miss I guess

Now obviously proper control of the rotary plays a huge part also but keeping the pad completely flat is not as big of an issue as some think, at least where swirls are concerned. Speed, pressure, clean pads, etc. all are factors.
I too have noticed that when it comes to rotary use, keeping the pad as flat as possible at all times does indeed help, but there's times when you just can't keep it flat... Maybe it's just me? :ninja:

I've never used or even seen a LC pad in person so I can't compare them to the Edge pad system that I've used since day 1, but maybe the pad just isn't quite soft enough?

I have however used OP and it's been 2-3 years since I've used it, but I honestly wasn't much of a fan of it. It seemed difficult to get a "flawless" finish and it gunked up on me... Could've simply been user error though. Tried Hyper compound too, and wasn't a big fan of it either. It kicked ass on some gel coat jobs I did, but for basecoast/clearcoat paint I wasn't impressed.

Also, I agree with the fact that you should control the buffer more with the trigger end than the handle end. I never really thought much of it until I read that, but I control mine in that same manner. I'm not saying you're not comfortable with the machine yet, but once you are you know what it likes to do, how it's going to react to whatever movement you put into it, etc.

Now- for the record, I'm NOT pushing this product in any way, but from day one I've sworn by Presta Products. I've used various finishing polishes (OP, SSR1, Megs stuff, 3M Finesse-It/Ultrafina, etc) and I always end up sticking with Presta Swirl Remover. I learned on the Presta/Edge system so I will admit I'm a bit biased, but I get good results each time. And their Ultra Cutting Creme Light mixed with a blended wool pad, foam cutting/light cut pad never leaves too deep of swirls and I never have difficulty buffing out it's compounding swirls. The only other finishing polish I'm a fan of is P&S Ultracoat Polish. Occasionally on black I tend to get some very light holograms so I'll switch to the Presta SR, but it's still great stuff.

Anyway, besides me rambling I've done here- I guess my point is that when it comes to final polishing on the finish, it's as much about product as it is your technique with the machine. Try a couple different products, work on/develop your technique, and you'll get the results you want. We've all been where you are at some point so don't feel bad! :D :shake:

and for the record, I've been using a rotary for about 4 years now and I'm still learning each time I use it. I think that's how you keep yourself fresh, by constantly watching yourself and... er, "remodeling" your technique? :crazy:
 

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Member #670
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I usually run my rotary at 1800 rpms and use menzerna SIP (super intensive polish) and menzerna nano polish with LC orange and white pads respectively.

The nano with the white LC pad seems to do the trick for me every time, so I'd say try some other polishes and see if that works. Also try a more consistent/higher speed, perhaps you're not gererating enough heat to actually get the swirls out??
 

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Geresy Farms
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1,292 Posts
I usually run my rotary at 1800 rpms and use menzerna SIP (super intensive polish) and menzerna nano polish with LC orange and white pads respectively.

The nano with the white LC pad seems to do the trick for me every time, so I'd say try some other polishes and see if that works. Also try a more consistent/higher speed, perhaps you're not gererating enough heat to actually get the swirls out??

I would not be running at 1800 if I was trying to finish off...
 

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OG
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I prime my pads, start at 1200 rpms.

De-shed between each pass (basically clean the pad with a stiff nylon bristle brush)

Then add a little more product, and step up to 2500 rpms.


Works for me.

I use a Makita 9227C rotary and either Meguiar's or Adam's pads.

For the tough stuff or colorsanding, I start off with 3M Perfect It II on a burgundy Meguiar's cutting pad. Then I follow that up with Adam's orange and 'Swirl & Haze Remover'.

Then some more lighter compounds.
 

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I prime my pads, start at 1200 rpms.

De-shed between each pass (basically clean the pad with a stiff nylon bristle brush)

Then add a little more product, and step up to 2500 rpms.


Works for me.

I use a Makita 9227C rotary and either Meguiar's or Adam's pads.

For the tough stuff or colorsanding, I start off with 3M Perfect It II on a burgundy Meguiar's cutting pad. Then I follow that up with Adam's orange and 'Swirl & Haze Remover'.

Then some more lighter compounds.
2500 rpm? So you have the machine on 5? You sure you didnt mean 1500 rpm?
 

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OG
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2500 rpm? So you have the machine on 5? You sure you didnt mean 1500 rpm?
Yeah, you're right.


I'm thinking of the PC



I start at level 1.5, then step up to 2.5 to finish.

I believe 1.5 is like 750 rpms and 2.5 is around 1500 rpms on the Makita.
 
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